Kurt Cobain Brought Back To Life As Playable Video Game Character

@SpyMagician: Point taken. My point with Sub Pop is that they really did start off indie, they weren't produced in a Disney boy band factory. And, even though Nevermind was released thru Geffen, Bleach was just as much a big F U to trashy hair band nonsense.

If I'm getting hung up somewhere in this discussion, playing devil's advocate, it's because in my mind "selling out" is associated with watering down the quality of an artist's music, and I just don't get that from Nirvana; or, at least, some other kind of compromise in integrity, but I don't know what that would be in the case of Nirvana. They got signed by a major label, made some great music (IMHO), became really famous, and then imploded. So the story goes in my head. I don't know how to demonize their decisions.

I also have a hard time thinking of Kurt Cobain as some shrewd music industry mogul. I guess you're saying he was, and I'm just unawares. I'm certainly no music industry expert -- you seem to have a better handle on it than myself, so I'll take your word for it. It's still tough for me to swallow the idea that Cobain or Nirvana would have taken an active role in making a mockery out of their music. All the examples that come to mind took place after the vacuum had formed following Cobain's untimely death (e.g. Courtney Love fighting for the rights to the music, or this video game).

Anyway, thanks for continuing the conversation. I still appreciate your commentary, here.

hilikusopus

@hilikusopus: The extended lecturing on who/what Sub Pop is/was (Subterranean Pop ZOMG! Really? Tell me more Professor!) is what's garnering the response you are getting. At least from me. And the apologizing over the so-fine-it's-barely-perceptable...... difference between Geffen and DGC only made things worse: News-Flash- The only folks who know/care about subsidiary differences in a company is the company itself. Heck, I'm not the biggest Sonic Youth fan, but I have admired their glibness about the Geffen deal.

The fact of the matter is that Nirvana was not as indie as you would think, but was still a good band. If you can dig it up, you might want to dig up Calvin Johnson's (K Records head) opinions on what happened to Nirvana and how it is a prime example of why he stays indie. Heck, he even had discussions directly with Kurt Cobain about the business and such. And as someone who is older, and wiser you know there is something to be said about Nirvana never going with a major label.

As it stands now, Sub Pop doesn't have any street cred anymore. Especially since they are now 49% owned by Warner Brothers. So in the end if Nirvana didn't go with Geffen, they would still be released by Warner.

In the end, Sub Pop's lasting legacy is figuring out how to "sell out" and convince some folks they haven't.

@Everyone else: I don't understand the need to make such sweeping statements. Look at the totality of what I said. Why the need to explain everything in such one-dimentional terms? It's arrogant, inaccurate, and boring.
@The suicide commenters: it's just a fallacy in this conversation, it's not a discussion about suicide and morality, and I'm not weighing in on it, excpet where I had pointed to it as evidence that maybe Cobain wasn't so gleeful and exuberant about his success as you've made him out to be.

@SpyMagician: I think you read into my use of the word "use", and you didn't seem to read my comment regarding DGC; I am not "ignorant". I offered some context for the conversation. It's so hard to find an intelligent common ground, sometimes, without demagoguery and pedantic lecturing.

Even after I validated one of your points and also granted "Sure, they were entertainers, of course they had some desire to be in the spotlight" -- which is basically what your whole collective argument boils down to, without offering any discussion of why that is good/bad/both and just oddly jumping to an angsty conclusion that they were terrible sellouts -- you refuse to consider anything I've written. It's to understand why such a trivial conversation could have so trollishly deteriorated into unexplained anger

hilikusopus

@Rosewater: Agreed.

hilikusopus

Soundgarden was the best band to come out of the grunge movement. Nirvana sucked my balls.

@hilikusopus: nevermind all that, Kurt had a drug problem and a history of depression. Game over. When you kill yourself you forfeit the right to roll over in your grave. Also, it totally blows that the rest of the band is not included. Or maybe it's better. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, these stupid rock music games are lame. It bears no resemblance what so ever to the act of making, playing or creating music, let alone Hearing or seeing it played. Maybe Kris and Dave said no to the game? Good for them if so.
It makes me kinda sad to think of a kid experiencing Nirvana this way for the first time.

@LutherHonduras: Well, I don't think that's entirely fair. Technically speaking one could say that Woodstock was irrelevant and if that never happened, something else would have happened and that would be the big "thing" that dominated the culture. But Woodstock happened and there you go.

At first, I was going to say "How is this creepier than 'The Beatles: Rock Band'?" But then I watched it and saw how band the animation was. It would also be less creepy if it was all of Nirvana, not just Cobain with a backing band of the wrong number of people.

@hilikusopus: Nobody who doesn't want to be in the spotlight fronts a band, big label or small. It's silly to say otherwise.

@hilikusopus: Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic seem extremely well-adjusted. I think blaming Kurt's suicide on anything other than Kurt is, pardon me, fucking stupid. It's also a tired cliche perpetrated by artistic types that suffer their own delusions of grandeur.

LutherHonduras

@SpyMagician, @hilikusopus: I don't think Sub-Pop or Nirvana can ever be given as much credit as people would like for changing anything. I was a senior in HS when this all went down, and the biggest factor was that kids of all stripes were ready, so fucking ready, for something like it.

It was Nirvana that landed, but looking back on it just a few years later it seemed pretty obvious that it could have been any number of things to kick of the alt/grunge/integrity revolution.

Remember how people went on and on about the importance of integrity in the wake of hair bands? Ugh, so fucking earnest and sincere. And Bleach is a shitty album, it always was and it always will be.

100% fun, bitches.

LutherHonduras

One of these things is not like the others...

And the pics won't upload. Drat.

or Zombie Kurt... (shudders)

AjaxNangerini

who cares if Nirvana sold out, what kurt would think if he were alive or whatever hypothetical questions you come up with.

Oh man! Kurt just came to me spiritually! ....What's that?!... The El Dueche of The Mentors killed you! And you want people to move on!.... I'll spread the word!

FriendlyFloyd

infamous? like he stole it from Johnston while he was having a seizure or something?

Urbania

@hilikusopus: I'm well aware of who/what Sub Pop is/was. But you are completely ignoring Nirvana jumping ship to go to Geffen records.

Had their whole career been with Sub Pop, then your point is well taken. But the ignorance of their post-Sub Pop history is glaring.

Also of note—and a tangent—but Sub Pop itself has had a horrible history with their bands. Nowadays, things seem much better. But back at their peak, bands were routinely screwed over and the company nearly kicked the bucket not for lack of talent but because of gross mismanagement.

Also when you say "...band as famous as Nirvana would eventually be used in this way..." that is cringeworthy. Nobody used Nirvana. They used themselves and made their own decisions.

If Kurt were alive today, I could easily see him and the band coming up with some elaborate explanation about how they way they cut a deal for Guitar Hero was completely "unique" and "indie" compared to others.

What it comes down to is this: They were a great band. But they were far from shy about "selling" themselves and doing so in ways that could be seen as hypocritical to their personal stance.

@takeouteurotrash: Anyway, it didn't hurt their artistry: they also made some of the best albums in rock history while affilated with a major label.

hilikusopus

@hilikusopus: .

hilikusopus

@takeouteurotrash: I know; just check my last edit. Maybe they thought they could have their cake and eat it too. It's just not fair or reasonable to characterize him, knowing the things he said and did over those years, as somebody who wanted to be in the spotlight. There's something else going on there, and it's a bit more complex, is all.

hilikusopus

@hilikusopus: Yes, David Geffen Company. Tremendously indie.

@takeouteurotrash: Technically, so did Sonic Youth, but it was really a brand new subsidiary label of Geffen, called DGC, that only later became known for "alt rock".

I think the truth sits somewhere in the grey zone but, without claiming any special insight into the mind of a man who commits suicide, I think the record speaks for itself: they didn't know what they had bargained for and they paid for it.

hilikusopus

@hilikusopus: They ditched Sub Pop and married Geffen in 1990.

@SpyMagician: It's fair to say that a band as famous as Nirvana would eventually be used in this way, but it's a bit achronistic to say that Sub Pop was a major label, and that Nirvana "had it coming to them."

Sub Pop was started in the 1980s as a college fanzine called Subterranean Pop, which focused on underground independent music. A few years later it became an indie label, shortened its name to Sub Pop, and signed Sonic Youth and the Screaming Trees, which epitomize indie rock in the 80s and 90s (still true of Sonic Youth today, whick recently provided live music for Merce Cunningham's modern dance perfomrance -- which I saw at BAM, and it was definitely "indie").

Nirvana signed on to Sub Pop in 1989 and released Bleach, which wasn't exactly foot-tapping ear candy for the kids, even for today's indie crowd. It was the antithesis to 80s hair bands making all the major labels a fortune at the time. Nirvana pretty much made the label what it is today, and the band's success is its own. It's a testament to the band and Sub Pop that that album marked the beginning of the end for what the other major labels had counted on as a cash crop for the past ten years.

Notwithstanding, your other point is well taken.

hilikusopus

@hilikusopus: You know this is creepy, and we all know about Kurt's "Corporate Rock Sucks" stance. But you know, their music was great but they were band who willfully signed to a major label and not as "indie" as some would imply.

So yeah, this is odd and not as odd as it seems. It's probably par for the course if Kurt had lived.

Looks like his evil twin.

reggattagirl

Q: Why did Kurt Cobain, esteemed musical entertainer, Kurt Donald Cobain, retire from the music business in 1994?

A: Well, sadly, his vocal chords were damaged in a tragic firearm accident.

Hey don't blame me! That was in USA Today!

CoffeyWasHere

Welp, the circle of shame is complete. 1) Who allowed Nirvana's music to be used in a video game? 2) I guess it was inevitable that they'd caricature the one song that caricatures his rise and fall. 3) Kurt might actually have laughed at it if they'd put him in a dress.

hilikusopus

Um yeah, creepy. Maybe they should have hired Disney to cute Cobain up a bit. Yikes.

Banjo-Sea Kitten